^have to agree with here but on the slight chance it is a real post, I commend you for leaving the church. Religion has been a cancer on humanity. I however am undecided if there is a god or not. If there is, it is nothing like that has been labled by humans. If god exists it is something we don't yet understand. Anyway, good luck. And don't be fooled into becoming a luciferian in the new age/ NWO
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If it's huge, although underground, something would have leaked. BS post.
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bs post
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You guys are apparently not aware of the major Daniel Dennett study about his topic. It's real, it's huge, and it's growing. The church is coming to an end.
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OP here - it's absolutely true. Most pastors know, if they've been to seminary. There are far too many biblical inconsistencies and interpolations. There is simply no evidence for God whatsoever. I've seen far too many children die to believe in any kind of theodicy that makes sense. There is a groundswell of pastors leaving the church, and it is giving courage to others to leave. My last Sunday is this week.
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So OP how do you all suppose we came to be? This is a serious question. I have thought of this for years and always wondered.... but often thought that people made up GOD to gain control over all people and to give others hopeof what might be. The funny thing is that I am not sure I beleive but in the long run it doesn't matter, because not one of us has died and come back to to say. So I guess we won't ever know. When bad things happen to me I still look up in the sky and pray though, funny how society has made us this way. Please write back. Any theory on the subject is greatly appreciated.
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OP again - to 2 up - we came to be through the process of random mutation by means of natural selection. Period. If you're talking about the universe as a whole, we simply don't know yet what existed before the Big Bang. But to simply say "God did it" whenever we don't understand something is meaningless. There is no evidence that any god did anything.To 1 up - I spelled God in caps because that is the culturally accepted norm when referring to a particular deity. There is no evidence for God (Yahweh), nor for any other gods.
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3 up^ - why do you pray to God when bad things happen, unless you also blame God for those bad things to begin with. Either God controls everything, or nothing. If God controls everything, that means he makes babies die and gives old ladies cancer. Which makes him a murderer at best. One more reason why he doesn't exist.
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Looking for answers? Smoke DMT.
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Thanks OP for answering my questions. I have always had so many questions regarding this as a whole. I married a Catholic but was not babtized my self and was told by his father that I would not go to heaven over it. I of course disputed that over and over again. But to no avail. I wrote here that I believe GOD was created by man to gain control and so that people would be told what other "men" think they should or should not do. As far as the other thing written 2up, I don't know why I pray to something I am not sure I beleive in, I guess, my theory is that if I am wrong, it can't hurt to try. ( if he is real i mean). This makes me wonder and feel sorrow for our souls however, I do hope that dead is not just dead and there is something else out there. With or without a holy being, it seems a waste to have a soul just to have no where to go. If in fact we are saying God doesn't exsist then I don't think heaven can either. Although I would love to see my mother again.
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and by the way same poster again, OP did not spell it all caps I did. I always have spelled it that way, habbit. Don't read to much into that. It makes no difference either way.
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Op once again - what makes you think we have a soul? I know it's a comforting belief, but there is no reason or evidence to believe in one. I think it's a lot healthier to make the best of THIS life, instead of waiting for some uncertain life after death. Pascal's Wager, which you suggest, assumes that we can trick God into "saving" us by simply confessing our belief in him. That makes such a God gullible in the extreme. Just find meaning and purpose in the one life you do have.
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Thanks OP for posting this. I am going to look into this movement. I am still remaining undecided about god but I totally agree with those who have said that the church and idea of god is used to control people. This is promising to hear because NWO is coming and the more ppl that wake up to the control mechanisms, the greater chance humanity has to heal.
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Psalms 14 and 53..."The fool said in his heart there is no GOD".
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^ Typical Christian - unwilling to address their own doubts, so they call everyone else a fool. Sick.
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well I am a christian and I have doubts but I will still believe...there is too much stuff that science can't explain. What I have to say about the underground movement...why fake it? Leave the church if you don't believe.
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OP again to above ^ - like I said, I AM leaving, as thousands of pastors will soon be doing. But I'm puzzled by your statement. Simply because science can't yet explain everything, you attribute the unknown to God? Why? Why not to invisible pink unicorns? The only reason you believe in God is because you are culturally conditioned to do so. You have no other reason, because there is not one shred of evidence to prove God exists.
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The world would have been a much better place had Christianity never existed.
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Evidence..Laughter. Laughter is not necessary for survival. Fear, pain, hope, physical sensation of sex, all necessary. Laughter is god.
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To the OP...I believe in God because I choose to...how do you explain the unexplainable? I was given the choice to leave the church, to stop believing...but I can't. I won't stop believing...not because I am an idiot either...I believe in God because I choose to. I think the world would be a better place if humans didn't exist. Also I think we as humans should respect someone's choice and not dictate to someone's belief in something or not. You choose to leave and I choose to believe. I think religion will stay around along as humans are alive.
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to the OP...what evidence are you looking for? The sunrises that is all I need. It's that simple...and I am chemist. I believe in science and God...that combination is the best one that fits for me.
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Also to the OP...if you are right then why do you care whether someone believes in God?
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2 up^ - the sunrise is proof of God to you? Sorry to burst your bubble, but the sunrise is due to the rotation of the earth, a phenomenon that is purely physical and needs no God. If that is the best you can do, then I seriously doubt you're a chemist.
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OP here to 2 up - I care because I drank the Kool-Aid for far too long, and it pains me to see so many still caught in the delusion of religion. Plus, belief in God shapes public policy and affects my world in a deeply negative way. It's up to us who have learned better to lead the rest.
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Yeah but it's still proof for me. I do know the concept...thank you for educating me again...next time I will not pay for college and just listen to you.
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To OP...what Kool-Aid? Are you against all religion or just Christianity? You do know that you are going to be up against a stronger religion than Christianity...Islam.
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All religions are delusional. Whatever god you choose, there is no evidence for any of them. Christianity is by far the most damaging religion in the US, so I'll focus my attention on rescuing people from that for now.
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to OP...will you respect someone's personal belief? Or will you fight until they BELIEVE in no GOD? And what will change when there is no religion?
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How will you recuse them? And how about if they are not willing to be recused, what will you do then? why do you think Christianity is the most dangerous? What will you do once christianity is abolished? How will you convert the Muslims?
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To the OP...if someone doesn't convert...will you kill them? Will you put them in prison? Will you start a war with them, because they will not convert? Is this a crusade on your end? I as a Christian will let you believe in whatever you want...I have no problem with you. I do not want to start a war with you. I want to live in peace with you. Just please understand that I am only human and believe in a God and I want to show love and respect you everyone...whether or not the person believes in a god or not.
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To OP...are you upset with all the Christians pushing the idea of hell on you? How about the Christians who are in the closest? The ones who don't push religion on other people...just sit around and praise their God in quiet.
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Why "underground movement"? Why not just leave? If you believe there is no God why not just walk out in plain daylight? Why so secretive? You "now know there is no God"? And just how do you now know? You need to rescue your own self before you try to rescue someone else!
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OP here - some of these questions are quire silly, but I'll try to answer briefly. Of course I respect others' beliefs. We simply try to help the thousands who are leaving the faith to transition into rational life. I'm upset with the whole lie os supernaturalism, because it traps people into a false worldview. I am not starting a war, I am leaving the system that created the war. It is underground at this point because many pastors face death threats when they leave the church. The movement helps them to find other employment and stay safe. Sort of like a witness protection program. Christians are extremely cruel to those who leave the faith, and we are helping those who leave to transition and stay safe. Very few Christians "praise God in quiet." In fact, evangelism demands that you push your beliefs on others.
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To the christians : are you aware that the religion that you follow is really based on pagan rituals and beliefs? Did you know that when you are worshiping the "son" that your energy output is going to worship of the "sun" or rather, the morningstar, the lightbearer, lucifer? Did you know that very soon all of this is going to be revealed under a new world order of luciferian domination? Don't believe me? Take a look at the nice big fat sundial at the vatican for starters. Good work OP. I am glad that people like you are coming to their senses before it is too late.
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OP and others in the same boat, stop playing all sciency. It wasn't so long ago that Darwin postulated natural selection. We know that black holes exist and something we want to call anti-matter. We have no way of measuring many things and emotional states, or even seeing them clearly. I happen to agree that the sky-god idea is wrong, but this does not mean there is no creative force in the Universe, and it does not mean we don't have souls. Surely you realize the idea of the soul transcends christian dogma, even Islam, appearing not just in every major religion but also in most tribal cultures. Sciency is you taking the absence of evidence to be the evidence of absence.
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LOL!!!!! "like a witness protection program"?!Are you really serious? If you believe what you are saying you and the other pastors would grow a backbone and have the COURAGE of your convictions just leave!
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OP here again - to above ^ - once again, we ARE leaving! That's the point. The movement I am part of serves to help pastors who are attacked AFTER they leave. You would be stunned how vicious Christians are to those who leave the faith, especially pastors. I know one whose car was burned, and many receive death threats. To 2 above ^ - of course there is creativity in the universe, but there is absolutely no reason to believe it originates in a god. And yes, the absence of evidence IS the evidence of absence, according to Vic Stenger and other philosophers. I suggest you all read "God: the Failed Hypothesis". 3 up^ is correct. Most of modern Christianity is neoplatonism mixed with paganism.
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Well as a Christian...I don't celebrate Christmas at all...I celebrate a "birth of a sun."
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To OP...the questions are silly but they are true...if someone doesn't convert to atheism...how will you react? Also "quiet Christians," yes they do exist...because I am one. I will not talk to anyone about Christianity...I am as afraid as you...I feel like if I say something wrong or be pro-gay or anything that might be anti-Christian. I will be killed, if you want to go to that extreme. I believe all Christians are hypocrites. All people are hypocites. I am still questioning, what would you want us to learn? I will let you be an atheist and please let me believe.
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There IS a God.We lost Him long ago.We killed His ONLY Son. Why would God stay??
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Watch out that no one deceives you? (Matthew 24:4).
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Christianity is the biggest hoax ever perpetuated upon mankind.
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OP again - I consider myself a humanist, rather than an atheist. And of course I "let" people believe who choose to. I never stated otherwise. All I ever said was that I am part of a movement that is working to help the thousands who are leaving the faith, especially pastors. I agree that liberal Christians are targeted too, but those who leave the faith are much more so. Now, my job is to help those who have seen the light, and realize that the God of Christianity is impossible, immoral, and evil.
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Religious feelings take the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of Natural Law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.Albert Einstein Hmmm, insignificant indeed.
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The god in the bible is actually many different gods.
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^ Actually that is a completely bogus quote. Einstein was an absolute naturalist, and did not believe in any supernatural being of any kind. In fact, a REAL quote of his is: "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly."
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Well I guess I gave Einstein a credit he didnt deserve. But it is nice. Us humans are so insignificant and so full of ourselves that it is so petty how we swill in our misery and drag ourselves into pits of despair. Appreciate life for what it is, simply existing and see the good things and know there is something far greater than us. GOD, just add another "o" .. that is what this is simply all about, what is wrong for being as good as we can be and kind to others, religion or not. So what is this underground movement going to do that is good and constructive.. or is this a hateful and evil cancer that is going to grow in the secret dark pits of society. Great, another dark hateful thing to deal with.
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There is no God but there is a Tron Guy? This is a travesty.
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1
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The movement is part of a larger organization that is VERY active in humanitarian relief efforts. Probably more so than most religious organizations.
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Here we go again...So there is no God, but no one can explain where everything came from without a higher power who created everything. Big bang? Who created the big bang? No matter what you come up with, it all goes back to something bigger than us and that is God
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hey op why don't u just leave whats with all this crap. who really cares what u do. why stir the pot when there is no need too. and have a nice day.
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2 up^ - it's silly to say that whatever we don't know yet = God. There is absolutely no reason to believe that. What makes you think that a "who" had to cause the Big Bang? Your conclusion is immature and baseless. 1 up ^ - no one is stirring the pot. If you had read the posts, you'd see that I AM LEAVING. My post is about the secret that thousands of pastors will soon be leaving the faith.
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You can't prove God doesn't exist. God is not a person, hence the term GOD, God is the creator and the energy source for which all things in the universe function, sheesh even aliens know this. Love eachother already and you shall see GOD.
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welcome to the real world
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2 up^ - you don't prove a negative, so the burden is on YOU to prove God DOES exist. You clearly don't understand the nature of evidentialism. You have absolutely no evidence for your claim that God exists or created anything, nor that God is the "energy source". Nor that there are aliens, nor that they "know this". Therefore, you fail miserably.
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OP... I am one of the original posters here, we went back and fourth, you were very helpful ( you commented on my remark about souls , that was the last comment i left here on Friday) Is there some way to contact you with out being here? Seriously? With out being flooded with bad or generic emails. Please tell me how. I need to know about something.
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No, you prove God doesn't exist, and you can only do that by explaining where everything came from without a higher power. Logically there is on other explanation. I love people who deny there is a God yet can't explain where everything came from. Until you can, I'll continue to believe in God because there is no other logical explanation.
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OP to above^ - once again, we do NOT have to prove where everything came from. YOU have to prove that God exists, otherwise your assertion is pointless and meaningless. To simply say "God done it" for things we don't yet know is simplistic and foolish. In all of recorded human history, there has never been any real evidence for the existence of God. Period.
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OP to 2 above ^ - you (or anyone else) can email me at freethinkernc@yahoo.com
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God exists because if he didn't I would have killed your dumb ass. you should thank God everyday :D
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That's not God, that's your medication. The very fact that someone like you can follow any god proves that god to be evil to the core. Or, more likely, non-existent.
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Thanks"C" for helping me, more than you will ever know. "K"
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Christian threatening violence, how novel! oh wait, its not.
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Is that what they call it these days? humanism? And you wonder why the world is falling into darkness and despair? its not a matter of god or whatever you want to call it, we have abandoned the tenants of what god intended and our world is paying for it.Whether you believe or not is irrelavant, so is the OP and his petty humanism thats another name for athiesm besides, why convince you there is no god and insulting you for whatever question or comment you say? That isnt a humanist, its a troll.
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^ Maybe you should try to repost that again, this time in English. You clearly have no understanding of the tenets (NOT "tenants") of humanism. It is far superior to your religion in every way.
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Humanism was ruined well before becoming an official religion.
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^ Wrong. Humanism is not a religion. A religion, by definition, is a system of belief in the supernatural. Humanism is "an approach in study, philosophy, or practice that focuses on human values and concerns."
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I think it's funny when people mix up there science and religion. Also, for the OP, humanism is as myth-based as any religion. I'll stick to turtleism since they are obviously the most advanced lifeform on this planet.
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Funny,this same belief made me join the Unitarian/Universalist Church.I realized that life and humanity is divine.Go figure
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